Academic’s warning on Muslims causes stir

(AIJAC have released a media statement where they withdraw from supporting Professor Israeli's engagements)

Also Johnny Baker and others have made comments semi-privately on this issue. If you wish to know more, email lion@icjs-online.org

Below is a list of the comments which have been placed on ICJS. If you want to see the original article in "The Age" scroll to the bottom.

If appeasing, soft, Jewish community leaders manage to convince AIJAC to drop their support for Melanie Phillips it will be another win to the danergerous left. In any case Melanie Phillips will be speaking at other Non Jewish events as well so she will get more than enough exposure. AIJAC do a fantastic Job arguing Israel's case against the overwhelming Anti Israel media and Muslim/Arab Lobby along with their left wing allies I doubt AIJAC will back down.

Posted by michael on 2007-02-17 22:22:44 GMT

One community leader has strongly disagreed with the views expressed hereunder, and has suggested that AIJAC withdraw its sponsorship from Melanie Phillips' forthcoming visit

Posted by Ralph Zwier on 2007-02-17 21:59:33 GMT

Muslim leaders, have rushed to dismiss as extreme the views of Professor Raphel Israeli who warned that Australia is at risk of violence if its Muslim population increased. Professor Israeli, an expert on Islamic history, may have ventured into a territory deemed “politically incorrect”, openly calling a spade a spade, but the facts are unfortunately on his side. What other explanation is there for rising Muslim unrest and violence in European countries, particularly in England, France and Holland, where a large concentration of Muslims exists? A recent survey also shows that around 40% of Muslims in the UK support the introduction of sharia laws which contradicts Western democracy. It's easy to criticise Prof. Israeli, but this won't stop Muslim violence in dozens of countries, such as in the Sudan, Daifur, Philippines, Gaza, Thailand, where Islamists are waging a bloody and violent war against Christian, African and other non-Muslim minorities. I'm concerned and dismay by AIJAC's decision to dissociate itself from Prof Raphael Israeli due to the controversial nature of his comments as reported in the Age 16/2 and in AJN. I am quite sure that if Prof Rapheal Israeli wasn't an Israeli and Jewish it would not have caused such a stir. What Prof Israeli had said about the threat of Islam is not a new revelation or prophecy. Similar sentiments and observations have been expressed by different people and experts in the field before and nothing is new. The Jewish leadership in the diaspora should learn from history and not repeat the same mistakes made, particularly by American Jewish organisations, during the rise of Nazism in Germany. Many of them chose to remain quiet, not alert thw world to the plight of German Jews in order not stir up controversies at home. The world, not just the Jews, paid heavy price for that.

Posted by Rachel on 2007-02-17 06:37:00 GMT

I imagine if Local Jewish religious leaders we call them rabbi's were inciting hatred and violence against non Jews living in Australia,if Jews were inviting overseas religious leaders ie rabbis to come and tell Jewish youth that muslims were poisoning the banannas so not to eat them ,if teachers in Jewish day schools were inciting hatred and violence against the muslim /Arab world,if jewish book shops were selling the most foul ,anti muslim anti arab hatefull material,if Jewish youths were running amuck around the country and the numbers Jewish youth in jails for violence out of all proportion ,if jewish youth gathered to cause disruption and violence along side others that hated Muslims and arabs at university leactures every time a Arab or muslim speaker was invited to speak and this was even backed up by most of the academia,if Jews were forcing universities to make special toilet arrangements for them,forced councils to chnage their lunch arrangements and forced the councils to make special swimming if the majority of refugees and asylum seekers and terrorists in foregn jails as well as Australian jails were all jews I guess there would a some that just had enough and said surely we need less of these Jews comming into Australia? or would all the Acedemia,ABC,SBS ,Trade Unions,NGO's,old fart ex Liberal PM,s ,Human rights,civil rights advocates all say hell no we need more of those Jews and spend all their time and funds defending the Jews.?????????

Posted by Blame the Jews! on 2007-02-17 05:34:11 GMT

LETTERS & EMAILS Date: 17/02/2007 Words: 2263 Source: THE AGE Publication: The Age Section: News Page: The Age Sat/17 th Feb Heed warning PROFESSOR Raphael Israeli's warning about large Muslim minorities in the West ( The Age, 16/2) should be heeded, as it is based on knowledge. The knee-jerk, vitriolic attack on him by a few Muslim leaders is a case of "shooting the messenger" because they don't like his message, no matter how truthful. Margot Tyne, Hawthorn

Posted by Shooting the messenger on 2007-02-17 05:20:15 GMT

Quite frankly, the Professor said nothing profound, nor anyting that is not obvious to anyone who knows what is going on in the world. To articulate it is another matter. It creates angry racist accusations against a Jew and an Israeli and quite frankly it should have been left to someone else to spell it out. The Government policies on imigration are already diffiult enough to gauge re who is to be allowed in and who should be kept out! Hopefully they ar balancing out all national and ethic, religious, as well as economic groups. I would prefer that the Professor coming from a country with 20% Muslim population should have shown more delicacy in how he wroded his comments.

Posted by MM on 2007-02-17 04:49:29 GMT

Scandalous, disgraceful, Islamophobic! But is it true?Before we shoot the messenger, perhaps we should ask a simple question: “Are his assertions borne out by FACTS?” Let’s look at them 1)Muslim immigrants manipulate the values of Western countries, taking advantage of their hospitality and tolerance. Just think: separate toilets and prayer rooms on Campuses, courses on Islam in virtually every University, employees in public services having to undertake “cultural diversity” (in reality Islamic) training, Muslims going into our schools under the guise of “Interfaith” spreading the Religion of Peace message, making predatory use of legislation to gain additional rights- the list goes on. 2) When the Muslim population increased, so did the risk of violence. Look at the disproportionate amount of gang rape against Australian girls, the violence by Lebanese Muslims in some areas of Sydney. And Muslims are presently only about 1.5 per cent of the population. 3) With France 10% Muslim, there are regions even the police were scared to enter, and militant Muslims were changing the country's political, economic and cultural fabric, and demanding anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies. These facts Cannot be denied. 4) Some Muslims want to impose sharia (Islamic law) in their adopted countries, and when propaganda did not work they turned to intimidation. The Grand Mufti advocates and practices polygamy, the main Islamic Councils are Islamists and openly support Hezbollah. As for intimidation, did most newspapers refuse to publish the Danish Cartoons out of principle or out of fear? People need to think about this. Naturally the two Ali’s – Ameer and Waleed – were quick to condemn the Professor’s words. But let's use our judgment, look at the facts and draw our own conclusions.

Posted by cassandra on 2007-02-17 02:35:09 GMT

Have a look at the poll on http://ninemsn.com.au Although it does not mention the Muslims specifically, it is generally understood. At the moment it is running about three to one on "capping" migration of certain religions. Professor Israeli seems to have identified the feelings of most Australians.

Posted by Wazza on 2007-02-16 22:20:14 GMT

Bali, the Phillipines, Israel, Spain, France, Britain, the United States, Somalia, Darfur - all attacked by Moslems. (Not to mention the troublesome countries of Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt)... Wherever Moslems seek to prevail trouble results. Greater numbers make this more likely. Professor Israeli has forewarned Australia, hopefully it will act in its own defense.

Posted by R.E.D. on 2007-02-16 22:10:47 GMT

I saw a short piece on Friday midnight news Channel 10 where Vic Alhadeff and a Muslim woman together refuted Prof Israeli's comment saying they were all for cultural diversity and they get on very well together. Prof Israeli can be at worst accused of PC incorrectness but the European experience speaks for itself. Perhaps the Australian experience is different or will remain so till the Muslim numbers increase from 1.5 of the population. I refer you to a government healthcare handbook instructing on Muslim patient care: www.health.qld.gov.au/multicultural/pdf/islamgde.pdf

Posted by Franita on 2007-02-16 22:05:56 GMT

I AM APPALLED BY THE COWARDICE OF AIJAC AND THE JEWISH COMMUNITY LEADERS IN SHYING AWAY FROM SUPPORTING PROF ISRAELI DUE HIS CONTROVERSIAL OBSERVATIONS. THE FACT THAT THEY ARE BASED ON REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE SEEMS TO BE IRRELEVANT AND THEY HAVE NOW HURT THE CREDIBILITY OF THIS SCHOLAR BECAUSE HE DARED TELL THE TRUTH. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!! THEY HAVE NOW PLAYED INTO THE HANDS OF MUSLIM PROPAGANDA.

Posted by MT on 2007-02-16 21:58:07 GMT

From Today's Age it seems that AIJAC has backed away from Prof Israeli, despite the obvious truth of his arguments and conclusions. AIJAC are moral cowards!! One small letter today supports Prof. Israeli.

Posted on 2007-02-16 15:07:59 GMT

Surveys and books by Phillips or Ye'or support the case put by Israeli. Allowing Muslims to reach a critical mass within democracies undermines them. The problem is that Muslims see themselves as superior with a god given mission to dominate, preferrably by force. They are also told not to mix with infidels. As Hirsi Ali points out, there are moderate Muslims, but Islam is a violent extermist creed. As long as Muslims compete for power through religiousity, they will not modernise and moderates among them will also suffer. Their leadership is in denial and they are dishonest. Trad thinks that Israeli's comments and the views of his sponsors should be sceeened. Ameer Ali baselessly accuses Israeli of pushing an Israeli government line. Waleed Ali equates Israeli's comments with Hilali's. This is typical of a culture which inverts criticisms and decontextualises them. Such manipulations have no place in rational Western societies which are premised on honesty and fair dealing.

Posted by paul2 on 2007-02-16 12:27:22 GMT

As usual the truth hurts. What the professor said is not based prophesy, racism or fascism. It's just projection of the historical record. You don’t have to “believe” in him to seen the validity. Don't expect our self-appointed communal leaders do anything sensible with ugly facts. They are firmly wed to denial as the way of PR and self-promotion.

Posted by Pmh on 2007-02-16 06:49:00 GMT

One or two correspondents here have missed the point. It is not just a matter of keeping out 'extremists', it is important to keep the Muslim minority very small and non-powerful. There is considerable evidence from demographic studies that about 10-15% is a critical tipping point. Why? because experience shows that when their populations grows large, and a 'critical mass' forms, there is a resultant increasing reluctance to be constrained to 'fit' with the host society and an increasing desire to change it to its way -- and in the case of Islam, an unbearable increase in violence and a security threat to the host nations. This is seen worldwide and specific to Muslims, and helped by their extremely high birth rates. So there is no comparison to "LIMIT JEWISH INTAKE' which was always peaceful and well-integrated to any democracy, or to limit other ethnic religious minorities that are happy to do their own thing and stay as a minority. The sad but undeniable fact is that this is a specific problem with Islam, in that it doesn't fit with Western democracy. How can it, when it denounces man-made laws such as in a democracy as an apostasy and the only valid laws are from Allah via Mohammad? Yes, of course, there are individual peaceful, 'safe' Muslims,--- i.e. the most secular non-religious ones that turn their backs on their violent religion, -- but so many aim to propagate Islam into our society in other ways, equally insidious, by demanding Islamic special conditions which impinge badly on the host society, and with the aim of eventual domination. 40% of UK Muslims just polled wanted sharia law! Basically it is time people wake up and really understand the pervasive, repressive ideology and aims of this religious-political system called Islam. See what is happening in Europe and elsewhere! It is in the interest of Jews and others in the West to try to cap Muslim immigration as much as possible! Our survival and that of the democratic West depends on it.

Posted on 2007-02-16 06:27:33 GMT

While I agree with this comment :"You should not let fundamentalist imams come here. Screen them 1000 times before they are admitted, and after they are admitted screen what they say in the mosque." I totally disagree with the way the AJN sensationalized his comments in their headline banner. I can just imagine the headlines in the recent past:"LIMIT JEWISH INTAKE". Would we like it? Is the AJN a racist rag nowadays? I found the prominence given to these comments in the AJN to be in total variance to the interests of the Jewish community. The academic is entitled to his views and let others decide whether they are valid or not.

Posted by Malvina on 2007-02-16 05:55:07 GMT

Was it a quote or wasn't it? The Fairfax report (left) states: "Professor Israeli distanced himself from a report in yesterday's Australian Jewish News that quoted him as saying Australia should cap Muslim immigration or risk being swamped by Indonesians."

Posted on 2007-02-16 04:18:14 GMT

How dare Professor Israeli tell the truth! What will appeasement apologists think?

Posted on 2007-02-16 04:16:37 GMT

It wasn't a "quote" in the AJN, it was an inference, made by a reporter, from a statement of facts by an academic....but the can of worms is now open, and the worms can't be put back in ....

Posted on 2007-02-16 04:15:16 GMT

I am worried that the bulk of the Fairfax reporting is based on a quote in the AJN - a shitty newspaper if ever there were one.

Posted on 2007-02-16 03:32:22 GMT

I get the impression that Professor Israeli's comments have been exptrapolated for sensational effect (with great success unfortunately). What saddens me most is the speed with which the Jewish establishment has ditched him ...

Posted on 2007-02-16 02:53:01 GMT

The good professor Raphael Israeli is spot on! He has realistically assessed the situation with a great deal of knowledge and understanding. His conclusions are important, and of course they will cause a reaction from the Muslims here, but that doesn't negate the valid arguments, based on global experience. The survival of the West is at stake, so 'political correctness' is counterproductive.

Posted by MT on 2007-02-16 01:51:08 GMT

Predictable. Jewish academic dares to raise the argument that Islamic immigration causes problems - BACKLASH! Outrage! Maybe even riots? Muslim after Muslim states Jews must be killed: Total silence from these very same groups. Perhaps it's the 'nuance'. Us uncomfortable as it may be, this is the discussion Australia needs to have while it can. For Eurabia and Londonistan, any discussion now, is too late.

Posted by TJ on 2007-02-16 01:36:52 GMT

THE fabric of Western nations is at risk when the Muslim population reaches about 10 per cent, as in France, a Jewish commentator on Islam said yesterday.

Raphael Israeli, an expert on Islamic history from Hebrew University in Jerusalem, told The Age that Australia was at risk of violence if its Muslim population increased.

"When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass you have problems. That is a general rule, so if it applies everywhere it applies in Australia," he said.

His views were last night dismissed as extreme by Muslim leaders.

But Professor Israeli distanced himself from a report in yesterday's Australian Jewish News that quoted him as saying Australia should cap Muslim immigration or risk being swamped by Indonesians. Professor Israeli has been brought to Australia by the Shalom Institute of the University of NSW. The Australia-Israel Jewish Affairs Council is co-hosting many of his activities, including a proposed visit to Melbourne next month.

Professor Israeli said Muslim immigrants had a reputation for manipulating the values of Western countries, taking advantage of their hospitality and tolerance.

"Greeks or Italians or Jews don't use violence. There is no Italian or Jewish Hilali (controversial Sydney cleric Sheikh Taj al-din al-Hilali) Why?"

The head of the Federal Government's Muslim advisory taskforce, Dr Ameer Ali, condemned the comments as being "totally inflammatory". He said Professor Israeli was pushing an Israeli Government line and betraying his discipline as an objective academic.

Islamic Council of Victoria spokesman Waleed Aly said some of the comments attributed to Professor Israeli came close to the sort of remark Sheikh Hilali was condemned over. He said the professor was conflating complex and separate issues.

Professor Israeli said that when the Muslim population increased, so did the risk of violence.

"Where there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence you are in trouble. If there is only 1 or 2 per cent they don't dare to do it — they don't have the backing of big communities, they know they are drowned in the environment of non-Muslims and are better behaved."

In Australia, Muslims are 1.5 per cent of the population.

In France, which has the highest proportion of Muslims in Europe at about 10 per cent, it was already too late, he said. There were regions even the police were scared to enter, and militant Muslims were changing the country's political and cultural fabric, and demanding anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies.

"French people say they are strangers in their own country. This is a point of no return. If you are on a collision course, what can you do? You can't put them all in prison, and anyway they are not all violent. You can't send them all back. You are really in trouble. It's irreversible."

Professor Israeli said that in Australia a few imams had preached violence and influenced young people.

"You should not let fundamentalist imams come here. Screen them 1000 times before they are admitted, and after they are admitted screen what they say in the mosque."